Apple parks its EV ambitions, shifts focus to AI Comments
- yalim
- mu4
M, 28 Feb 2024You are more likely to wake up to a dead ICE card than a dead EV in the cold winter morning.
... morethat was a very kind and insightful comment. thank you for the time to share your long term experience.
most of the preference is also dependent on the government tax structure and charging infrastructure availability. for instance, if you have a budget for b-segment car, all options should sit within 15-20% range. otherwise, people will probably chose to a higher segment ICE car. a renault zoe (EV) should cost similar to clio (ICE), not megane (ICE). we can multiply this comparison for every brand.
home charging is also a key differentiator as you stated. it is not so practical if you are dependent only on 3rd party fast chargers.
- M
- iBM
Anonym, 28 Feb 2024The facts are that outside of Norway, the single defining constraint for EV adoption is infras... moreA few key things to think about here is that China is very much outside of Norway. Same goes for Sweden btw.
Many rich lives in tiny apartments in city centers and don't necessarily have cars themselves, as it's not needed as they have everything they need outside their door. More and more people living in cities stop buying their own cars. My father in Oslo will not replace his car when it gets too old. They barely use it anymore and they love the fact that the city is getting more free from cars and traffic. Car sharing is also partly responsible for the reduction of private ownership, no to mention that fewer and fewer people are taking their driver's license at the age of 18, not just in Norway, but in many countries. The development of public transport, including small electric vehicles such as electric scooters, e-bikes etc, makes cars redundant for a large group of people and their commute to work, school or just visiting friends. Gone are the days when taking a bike was for the very few and automatically meant having to shower upon arrival at work. Which I did many, many moons ago.
In most countries you have cities and rural areas. People in rural areas would be more likely than someone in a city center to A) need a car and B) have the possibility for home charging. It is also easier to upgrade the grid in a rural area compared to a city center.
Me and my brother being great examples of this. Me having lived in rural areas the past 10 years and having had home charging at both locations. My brother living in the city center in a very old apartment building without a parking garage and solely street parking that does not yet offer charging. So for him, the option would either be to wait for a NIO swapping station in our city, or a hydrogen station. Neither exists here at the moment, so he is stuck with is petrol Golf. He has also been looking at Tesla model 3 and having either a weekly quick charge when at the store/mall or charging at my house when visiting here.
Another aspect is speed limitations. The electrical company can say, that in this particular area, residents can no longer install home chargers with a capacity over 16A, as an example. I have heard about this in some areas, though not in the places I've lived. Still plenty enough to charge over night. Even 10A is plenty for that for normal use. Both that I have had were 32A where I lived and live, which is is quite overkill, but I'm not complaining. Some can also adjust though app.
Cities are intentionally making the use of cars more difficult and making more space for bicycles, scooters and pedestrians. Car free zones and so on will continue to grow in cities and the use for privately owned cars for people in the cities will likely go down and alternative transport go up. If this is possible in a cold and barren country like Norway, then it should be even easier to accomplish in countries with warmer climates.
I am also of those cheering on hydrogen, as an option for those who wish to have a car, but do not have the possibility for home charging. Though if NIO gets a broader network of battery swapping stations globally, and more budget oriented cars with this offering, then this could be the winner for private users without home charging.
For heavy duty commercial vehicles I also think Hydrogen could end up with a very significant market share.
- Anonymous
- 0p}
S, 29 Feb 2024I wonder what is EV ?Here are some of the terms:
ICE - Internal Combustion Engine
EV - Electric Vehicle
BEV - Battery Electric Vehicle
PHEV - Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle
FCEV - Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle
- Anonymous
- rJh
Anonym, 28 Feb 2024The facts are that outside of Norway, the single defining constraint for EV adoption is infras... moreSomeone on the west is planting jet booster in cars says 100km in a sec, others in pecific settled for analogue computers instead of Fly-by-wire for their private jet(raining 50 cals). tech that is not scalable ll always remain liability.
- Anonym
- L93
M, 28 Feb 2024By all means, people's opinions are different, but facts are facts. And lots of your prev... moreThe facts are that outside of Norway, the single defining constraint for EV adoption is infrastructure (or lack thereof). In fact, EVs are excellent social class predictors: the elites who have a nice home with private garages are the ones who can have their own charger at affordable energy prices. Everyone else relies on public charging, which requires lots of planning and hassle and costs A LOT more than you could charge at home.
So yeah, I understand how a wave of EVs below 25K€ may seem fantastic for EV adoption... but it is a poisoned present. The numbers will go up, but so will the complaints and horror stories of "EV bad" simply because the infrastructure isn't up to the task and public charging is still way too expensive in most places.
556- Fearghast
- ps1
M, 28 Feb 2024By all means, people's opinions are different, but facts are facts. And lots of your prev... moreIt's nice you are optimistic and all, but EVs in EU represents 16% of cars.
I really hope smaller EVs would to push EV adoption, because I really hate EV SUVs as a concept - heavy, low efficiency, big etc.
One of my favourite EVs is still Škoda Citigo, even if it was poorly managed and has two metric tons of problems, it still was one of the best small EVs on the market.
- Anonymous
- rJh
M, 28 Feb 2024By all means, people's opinions are different, but facts are facts. And lots of your prev... moreI have never seen an answer that big for any questionn.
- M
- iBM
Anonymous, 28 Feb 2024Simple: you do you; me do me.
And that's why the market share would struggle to grow b... moreBy all means, people's opinions are different, but facts are facts. And lots of your previous comment was factually incorrect.
As for this one, well:
The private EV market share for 2023 was 82.5% here i Norway and petrol stations are being either converted to energy stations or shut down in a high rate. In Sweden it was 63.1%
In China, one of the biggest economies of the world, EV market share also passed 30% last year with a considerable margin and it will likely just continue to grow and overtake ICE's market share in just a few years from now.
In Europe, as a whole, EVs passed a 20% market share last year, and now with the smaller cars coming; Renault 5, BYD Seal, BYD Seagull, Tesla Model 2, VW ID 2, etc. - the market share of EVs will just continue to grow rapidly. As in this segment, there hasn't really been that much to choose from apart from the over priced Honda E and the Fiat 500e. SUVs and crossovers has there been plenty of, especially in the price range above 40.000 EUR. Now the budget market will finally get some contenders as well.
I'm guessing America will continue to be the slowest to adopt of the industrialized continents. In part due to the trade war with China, and the lack of great offerings from China as a result. Including NIO, BYD, MG, Hongqi and more. The MG Cyberster is looking to be a great little sports car to have fun with. Coming very soon to Asia and Europe.
So it doesn't look like it will struggle to go past 30%
It already has in several markets.
Pretty much all technology evolves constantly, or gets replaced. Made redundant. EV charging is incredibly rapid, and battery swapping is even faster. Same speed as filling a tank, actually. Bonus is, very few actually have to either rapid charge or battery swap in their daily lives. Taxi drivers depend on their car being reliable and having the energy required to finish a work day. A whopping 90% of new taxis in Norway in 2023 were EVs. Up from 70% in 2022. Taxi drivers drive for a living. A lot of driving.
As for consumers, charging at home is awesome. Full battery every morning, should one so choose. Enough in most modern cars to drive 350-500km, and that is a lot more than what most people drive every day. Or week, for that matter, as it would correspond to 18.200 - 26.000 km/year - even with just one charge per week. In Europe the total driving average is around 10.300km/year, but ranges from around 8.000 to 13.000 km/year from nation to nation. So one full charge, or battery swap, per week should be plenty for the very vast majority of car owners.
- Anonymous
- vGN
M, 28 Feb 2024You are more likely to wake up to a dead ICE card than a dead EV in the cold winter morning.
... moreSimple: you do you; me do me.
And that's why the market share would struggle to grow beyond 30% unless charging tech itself improves. It doesn't negate the fact that some people love the idea of an EV.
- Anonymous
- xK5
Anyone thought it made no sense for Apple to make an EV in the first place and never bought into this rumor? I get that Apple can come up with a pretty spiffy dashboard experience, but a whole working electric vehicle is really not up their alley.
- Anonymous
- IbI
yalim, 28 Feb 2024charging anxiety is still there since charging availability and speeds are not satisfactory. h... moreI know other people are ripping you apart, but you're generally right. I have a friend who's planning a ~400 mile trip, and he was telling me he has going to have to fully recharge twice along the way. And this isn't even a cold weather issue where he is. Plus he was telling me about how he had to take the car (late 2021 Tesla Model 3) into the service center yesterday for yet another defect. And with the price cuts, he can't even sell or trade it in for much of anything. EVs still have a long, long way to go before they're ready for average consumers and not just car enthusiasts.
- Anonymous
- rJT
M, 28 Feb 2024You are more likely to wake up to a dead ICE card than a dead EV in the cold winter morning. ... moreThis article is about failing ev business(and governments who backs them), yo in the other hand convincing otherwise. Good
556- Fearghast
- ps1
yalim, 28 Feb 2024charging anxiety is still there since charging availability and speeds are not satisfactory. h... moreMate, I get your concerns, but "too many EVs catching fire on the news rises safety concerns" is simply not correct. Media and many others dependent on viewer engagement love that sweet ad revenue stream, but statistically speaking EVs are probably the safest vehicles when it comes to cosplaying as fireball on wheels.
I would say if you buy BMW or Mercedes, your changes of getting extra crispy are considerably higher than driving Tesla or even something like Dacia Spring.
- M
- S0j
yalim, 28 Feb 2024charging anxiety is still there since charging availability and speeds are not satisfactory. h... moreYou are more likely to wake up to a dead ICE card than a dead EV in the cold winter morning.
You are also more likely to start your EV at a push of a button (or pedal) on the first go, every time, in a EV vs. an ICE car. Especially in cold climates.
I have an old, low capacity, essentially first gen usable EV (Kia Soul EV) and still I can leave it for weeks at a time at an airport whilst going abroad to escape the cold for several weeks at a time. This does not really affect the main battery percentage significantly. The 12V is more likely to go. So cancelling all programmed charge times and warm up times is a benefit to keep the 12V alive, as the infotainment has nothing to do. Most cars also have a fuse to disconnect in such cases, but I haven't had the need for that.
This may vary from country to country, but here (Norway) if you wish to retain the maximum value of your car, you use the authorized dealer/workshop. Regardless of EV or ICE car. The same dealer that services EV from Kia, BMW, VW and so on, handles the service for the EV. No difference there. With regards to third party garages, they can just as easily change tires, suspension, headlights, gaskets, filters, repair bodywork and so on, on an EV as they can an ICE car. Only difference is qualifications on the EV drive train. Said drive train being immensely more reliable and less reliant on services, than ICE cars.
EVs burns a lot less frequent than ICE cars. Because they burn so rarely, by comparison, that makes it newsworthy. Especially if Tesla, since Tesla is very newsworthy in general and generates a lot of clicks.
In my tiny little country the most recent numbers I have are from 2021 where 760 cars burned throughout the year. This isn't worth writing about almost twice per day. Only 29 of the 760 cars were EVs and even less were Tesla. Hence more newsworthy. EVs made up 20.6% of the cars in my country, but accounted for 3.8% of the cars burning.
ICE cars tend to catch fire upon ignition and during driving, not so much during parking. Although there have been some exotic exceptions. EVs are more likely to catch fire during charging. So not when you're inside the car, but they can also catch fire during use.
I do not miss having an ICE car in the past, and the benefits of EV are just beyond what I originally expected. I can drive it a lot harder without complaints, even from the get to on a cold morning that would blow the top of an ICE car. It has less noise, no power gaps during gear shift as there aren't multiple gears in most EVs, quick and cheap services, cheap "fuel" as it charges at home, not having to go to the gas station once a week and waste time.
As mentioned I have an old, nearly antiquated, EV when compared to modern EV and their range. Still, I've driven it nearly 130.000 KM now and barely every used a rapid charging station. Only really needed it when going a very long distance once in a blue moon. Most of which would not be needed at all if I had a more recent EV with longer range. And this also means that my annual driving is about 50% higher than the average here where i reside. Still possible in an old low-range "city EV", as they call it. Even though I've lived on the countryside.
If you have no possibilty for home charging, then I agree EV isn't ideal. Especially if Nio isn't present in your area with their battery swapping stations. if you have possibility for home charging, EVs are wonderful.
- yalim
- mu4
LoL, 28 Feb 2024Have you been living under a rock? Not a thing wrong with EVs. The self driving tech however i... morecharging anxiety is still there since charging availability and speeds are not satisfactory. high battery drain in cold weather is a risk for unplugged parking. they are expensive for similar segment ICE rivals. too many EVs catching fire on the news rises safety concerns. old battery replacement is really expensive. service centers are not well established. hard to sell second hand.
- Anonymous
- i{q
Anonymous, 28 Feb 2024It's so much fun reading bad copes in here since their beloved Apple totally lost it. You... moreNope, I wouldn't. I've had the same opinion on Apple building EV's since they announced it. Doesn't make sense for them. I own zero Apple products and don't care about Apple. Some people on here have such strong reactions to the name Apple.....yeesh.
556- Fearghast
- ps1
M, 28 Feb 2024There is simply less to service. The brakes, suspension, lights, filters etc. is the same.
... moreI wasn't talking about cost to change oil, I was talking about getting the required service and not paying more than the whole vehicle is worth.
Hyundai for example, good luck getting your EV serviced when any issue appears regarding motors or battery ... or software ... or their overheating issue.
Tesla is much better in this regard, but still you bump your car in a car park and wait ages for bumper replacement ... or even an appointment.
In terms of the whole VW concern ... good luck getting software updates.
- Anonymous
- gKC
regs, 28 Feb 2024They now lagging far behind Chinese EV manufacturers. It would be very difficult to catch them... morethey never hadf nothing apple is scam company who use other comapny tech and call apple innovation sadly stupid people exist
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